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  1. Resolved Question: What is your favorite old-school Hardcore bands or Punk ba...
    2. 31 May 2008 at 5:35am
    I like Gorilla Biscuits, Cro-Mags, Strife, Youth of Today, Judge, CIV, Old Agnostic Front, etc...


  2. Resolved Question: Who likes humor? #3?
    3. 19 May 2008 at 2:15pm
    Someone found out that my friend is an agnostic. They burnt a question mark on his front lawn!!! And why did yahoo want this in the dating and singles category if they aren't promoting a gay lifestyle??!! lol


  3. Resolved Question: Time for another random survey. Who do you prefer?
    4. 14 May 2008 at 10:01pm
    I love doing these so here's another: Dick Dale or The Ventures? Agnostic Front or Madball? Big Bad Voodoo Daddy or Cherry Poppin Daddies? Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath? The Exploited or GBH? Toad The Wet Sprocket or Crash Test Dummies? Black Flag or Minor Threat? The Pixies or Sonic Youth? Bruce Springsteen or John Cougar Mellencamp? Johnny Cash or Willy Nelson? Ice T or Body Count? Leftover Crack or Operation Ivy? Lou Reed or Iggy Pop? Interpol or Catherine Wheel? Down or Pantera? The Monkees or The Beatles? Bonus: Root Beer or Sarsaparilla?


  4. Resolved Question: Based on this list below, What bands can you advise me to ...
    5. 11 May 2008 at 3:27am
    I love hardcore/ metalcore/ punk


  5. Resolved Question: Atheists, did going to college make you an atheist?
    6. 3 May 2008 at 7:10pm
    I just read an old question about why people want to have kids, and this woman went on about God and stuff and said that she wouldn't pay for her kids to go to a "liberal college" that she didn't believe in. In my case, college did not help at all on the religious front. Had my professors kept from talking about religion all of the time, especially early in college, I might not have become an agnostic. However, I can put much more of the blame for that on the Catholic high school I went to. FYI, I didn't go to an officially religious university. It was a state university.


  6. Resolved Question: Who knows about the Cro Mags, Biohazard, Youth f Today, CI...
    7. 2 May 2008 at 2:21am
    WHAT THE FUCK happened to New York Hardcore? CBGB's went down hard after all these years. WTF? Every time i look up hardocre on here, people think slipknot, tool, and other metal bands are hardcore. THEY ARE not bad bands but they are different from the hardcore scene and it's roots and it's original meaning. There are newer metalcore/ hardcore bands that are great and it seems no one knows about the great era of Warzone, Cro Mags, Youth of today, Gorilla Biscuits, Strife, Judge,etc..that evolved in Idecison, Shai Hulud, Agnostic front, Madball, etc...which evolved into Bury Your Dead, Most Precious Blood, Snapcase, 25 ta life, Terror, and metalcore/emo/ hardcore/ deathcore/ thrashmetal/ screamo in general... Am i the onyl one who knows this stuff or what? Is NYHC alive or what people? Where are my hardcore fans who know and love and lived/ live by their beliefs??????????


  7. Resolved Question: Agnostics what do you think of the close minded believers ...
    8. 14 Apr 2008 at 4:10pm
    What would it take to open their minds so they can feel the freedom of it? Feels good to think for oneself doesn't it? Shame to see so many people living their entire life's in a rut isn't it? I couldn't imagine following behind the human race in a single file line, I like stretching my mind a lot farther than the tail bone in front of me.


  8. Resolved Question: Best hardcore band you've heard of...?
    9. 14 Mar 2008 at 3:09pm
    REAL HARDCORE.. none of that "august burns red'' or ''parkway drive'' bullcrap... bands like full blown chaos and agnostic front... Dethklok is real.. AND CANNIBAL CORPSE IS NOT HARDCORE.. i love cannibal corpse. sigh... no one knows what hardcore is anymore.. And hurray for the guy who said BLACK FLAG Dethklok is real.. AND CANNIBAL CORPSE IS NOT HARDCORE.. i love cannibal corpse. sigh... no one knows what hardcore is anymore.. And hurray for the guy who said BLACK FLAG


  9. Resolved Question: How can I make new friends who have kids at age 35?
    10. 13 Mar 2008 at 1:57pm
    It seems to me very hard to find new friends. I am a smoker (although I only smoke outside and never in front of the kids). But that doesn't matter since no one has ever come over or has seen me smoke (kind of a closet smoker and trying to quit). Also, I do not go to church. My outlook for the most part is agnostic when it comes to religion. But then again I have never told anyone about this. So I guess the only way to meet people is to go to church these days, which I won't do just to meet people. I am a stay at home mom with an only child who is 5. The moms I meet at her school are already in a clich and belong to a church. I have tried to set up playdates but either they don't return my calls or they would rather my kid come to their house instead of mine. My kid is great and they all tell me that, so is it me they don't want around? I feel bad for my kid because she wants a playmate, just as I would like to meet other parents too, but there's only so much I can do.


  10. Resolved Question: agnostic front!!!!!?
    11. 3 Mar 2008 at 10:41pm
    ok im an agnostic front fan but is it just me when every song on another voice sound the same.


  11. Resolved Question: Are agnostics less biased than the rest of us, or are they...
    12. 29 Feb 2008 at 6:56pm

  12. Resolved Question: If you had a chance to interview God:?
    13. 24 Feb 2008 at 7:45pm
    All people of all beliefs, faiths, religions, spiritual beliefs are welcome to respond to this question. I would also like to hear from agnostics and atheists (just assume there is a God to ask your question, please). Please think about the one most burning question you have ever had that is unanswered in your life. You can write as little or as much as you want...but I would like to have your reflections and motives behind the question (why are you asking it?) Imagine you and God (imagine God any way you want to) sitting in a nice conference room, you are comfortable and God is sitting there in front of you and will answer anything you ask. Please feel comfortable, as God wants you to know the answer...and so ask it. Also, you may ask multiple questions, but to be brief, let's keep it down to a maximum of the three most important, if there is more than one question to be asked. Thank you everyone! :)


  13. Resolved Question: Favourite Hatebreed songs?
    14. 7 Feb 2008 at 6:25am
    Bad Brains. Madball. Agnostic Front. Black Flag. Minor Threat. Sick Of It All. Integrity. I've just listed the true legends of hardcore. But oh my, I missed one. Hatebreed. While the above bands all cemented their reputation as hardcore's pioneers, there's been only one group that has deserved comparison. The evolution of hardcore has obviously changed over the years, and the leaders of the newer-school brand of HC are without a doubt Hatebreed. They've been going strong since the mid 90's and continue to make magnificent, flawless music. Their undeniable passion is inspirational and testament to their reputation. They've never lost any of their brutality and heaviness, although some may argue that "Rise Of Brutality" was a step back in creativeness in regards to both the music and the songwriting. But they've always stayed true to the genre, and have amassed a colossal fanbase all over the world. Okay I've rambled long enough. What are Hatebreed's best songs in your opinion?


  14. Resolved Question: What do you think when people put on a front?
    15. 26 Jan 2008 at 3:41pm
    Recently at work, I heard that this coworker who has the air that she is confident and sure, got depressed and seek professional help. Just so you know, I am not sure what belief this person holds. She says that can study what God is on her own. So I can't say that she is theist, atheist, or agnostic. That is not important. Just put it in case someone was wondering. Anyway, what do you think of people who put on a front. Their public persona is different from what they really are. So why have the need to break from this persona and share with others (or one person) how you really feel?


  15. Resolved Question: What is punk?
    16. 18 Jan 2008 at 3:17am
    What is punk you ask? Well punk is a style, attitude, and a type of music. The punk style mainly consists of DIY and whatever else YOU want to do. The attitude is mainly a i don't care, anarchist, type of attitude, but that can also have whatever your attitude is in there. The music...who the hell knows how to explain the music, its basically every type of rock that doesnt fit into the "main" categories of rock. What i'm trying to say is that punk is basically whatever you want it to be, with a little of the things that i said mixed in....but mainly what YOU are not anyone else.Heres some bands:Abrasive Wheels,The Adicts,The Adolescents,The Adverts,Anti-Nowhere League,The Avengers,Bad Brains,Black Flag,The Boys,Buzzcocks,Chelsea,Circle Jerks,The Clash,Cock Sparrer,The Cramps,Crass,The Damned,The Dead Boys,Dead Kennedys,The Descendents,The Diodes,DOA,The Drones,Generation X,The Heartbreakers,Iggy Pop,The Jerks,London SS,Minor Threat,Minutemen,The Misfits,Offspring,The Plasmatics,The Ramones,Reagan Youth,Richard Hell & The Voidoids,The Screamers,Sex Pistols,Sham 69,The Skids,Social Distortion,Stiff Little Fingers,The Subhumans,Toy Dolls,UK Subs,The Vibrators,Vice Squad,The Varukers,X-Ray Spex,999,7 Seconds,Anti-Flag,Bad Religion,Blitz,The Casualties,Cheap Sex,Cro-Mags,Crucifucks,Discharge,The Distillers,Dropkick Murphys,The Exploited,Flogging Molly,Goldfinger,Horrorpops,Leftover Crack,Lower Class Brats,MDC ,Operation Ivy,Osaka Popstar,Pennywise,The Queers,Rancid,Raid,Rise Against,Suicidal Tendencies,Teen Idols,Toxic Waste,TSOL,UK Bombs,The Unseen,The Vandals,The Virus,The 4-Skins,88 Fingers Louie,Adam & The Ants,A Global Threat,Agnostic Front,Aus-Rotten,The Briggs,The Business,Buzzcocks,Capitalist Casualties,Clit 45,Cockney Rejects,Conflict,Crucifix,Dead Milkmen,The Devotchkas,The Diodes,Flatfoot 56,Flipper,Gang Green,GBH,The Germs,Gorilla Biscuits,Joey Ramone,Johnny Thunders,Naked Raygun,Negative FX,Nekromantix,Oi Polloi,The Outkasts,Peter and The Test Tube Babies,The Raincoats,Scholastic Deth,Sid Vicious,Sonic Youth,SSD,The Vandals,Wasted Youth,Youth Brigade,Agent Orange,Angry Samoans,The Dictators, Fugazi,Alien Sex Fiend,Dr. Know, Biohazard,Allies,Butthole Surfers,Discharge,Chaotic Discord, D4, Descendents, Funeral Dress, Middle Finger Salute, Punk Core, The Explosion, The Disasters, Raw Power, The Heat, The Rubies, The Shakers, Deeno's Marvels,The Machines, The Vicars, The Sinyx, Kronstadt Uprising, The Prey, Anorexic Dead, Allegiance to no one, the icons captain strange, the spurts, deciballs, the school bullies,the convicted, stax century,idiot,decibels,the shocks,autumn poison,armless teddies,the psychopaths,the objects,rollins band,bleeding pyles,closedown,burning idols,the leepers, speedball, the cards,taming the outback, the get, grinder, stripey zebras,the jam, steve hooker and the heat,whizz kids, the drill, penetration, small town rumor,advertising,the opposition,vinyl degenerates,kapt. anorak,deep throats,mongrel,mik bostik,sleeper,frenzee,gilmartin,tall story,norman and the worms, the vicars, jukes,urban disturbance,social unrest,mission of burma,government issue,BGK,killdozer,III Repute, Fear,Channel 3,Alternative TV,The Carpettes,The Cortinas,The Crabs,Crime,The Crowd,The Cure,Devo,Dickies,the drones, the dwarves,eater,forgotten rebels,gun club,the hollywood brats, jack & the ribbers, the jam, johnny & the self abusers,johnny moped,killing joke,king,lightning raiders,london,lords of the new church,magazine,mc5,metal urbain,the models,the modern lovers,the neon boys,new york dolls,newton neurotics,the patti smith group,protex,pure hell,the radiators from space,radio stars,sublime,the rezillos,the rich kids,rocket from the tombs,rudi,the ruts, the scars, the scavengers,siouxsie & the banshees,skrewdriver,slaughter & the dogs,some chicken,stark naked & the fleshtones,the subs,subway sect,suicide,talking heads,teenage head,television,tenpole tudor, the tights,the white cats,wire,x,the zeros,balzac,american steel,bouncing souls, and many more


  16. Resolved Question: Do I have a mental disorder?
    17. 16 Jan 2008 at 6:50pm
    Hi, I'm 17 and a student. I get decent grades but lately they have been slipping. Well, I used to smoke a bit of weed a few months ago, and I understand most effects from weed wear out rather quickly. But lately I've been losing touch with reality kind of.. It's very hard to explain so excuse my grammar and punctuation while I try my best.. Like, I look at things and don't even think they are real? I call it "dull" or "not vivid" but it isn't physically different or anything.. just... feels sorta different.. I get mood swings but never fall into bad depression, I'm nice in front of everybody and I'm generally happy when I'm with people but I am miserable when I'm alone. I get lonely very quickly and agitated very easily. In the past 6 months or so, I abandoned religion (please don't give me a speech about god, I am agnostic and sure of it) too, I do a lot of big thinking, thinking that isn't appropriate for my age, you know? Running out of room, i'll add detail. yeah, well. I haven't been too social lately and i've been klinging onto the past and getting in touch with ex girlfriends and such just for a memory... I don't have too much trouble with girls or anything, I really dislike meeting new people now, and I used to love it. I don't smoke weed anymore, I don't have a reason not to, I just don't wanna. hmmm.. what else.. Oh yeah, I have trouble sleeping sometimes and I just angry because I stare at my ceiling for hours and I don't fall asleep, which makes my next day very very shitty. I don't know what to do.. I don't want to think i'm crazy but i'm taking a bunch of sociology/psychology classes and I feel like I fit into these mental disorders, although I don't hallucinate and stuff.. I just.. trip sometimes? Like, I'll stare off.. and just lose contact with everything.. oh and i'm extremely paranoid by the way.. I get excited rushes to lock my door when I get in my car and I tend to run if i don't know whats behind me.. meh.. Am I crazy? One more thing that may be kinda important.. when I stare at things I feel out of my body or i'm staring at ME staring at something.. like a third person view or something..


  17. Resolved Question: Believers and non-believers: can you use the anonymity of ...
    18. 4 Jan 2008 at 2:39pm
    Please look deep inside yourself and answer honestly. No one knows who you are here, so there's no need to set an agenda or put on a "front." If you are a believer in a religion, what is the one argument of atheists that, deep down where your true beliefs are, you agree with? If you are an atheist or agnostic or just a general non-believer in religion, what's the one argument of believers that, deep down, you agree with? If you would, kindly leave your age when answering.


  18. Resolved Question: Is it true that it is acceptable for a giant menorah to be...
    19. 21 Dec 2007 at 10:19pm
    Believe me I'm agnostic when it comes to religion and nor do I hate Jews. I just want to find out why this is? I recall there being some hoorahrah about crosses and nativity scenes being on government grounds before, but it's ok to have a giant menorah on the white house grounds but no Christianity? Giant Menorah in front of White House http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480073,00.html Is this ok with Christians and Jews? Christmas trees aren't of Christian origin it's of pagan origin. No crosses or nativity scenes.


  19. Resolved Question: What are some underrated albums you love but not many othe...
    20. 10 Dec 2007 at 3:35pm
    Like for me it's Pro-Pain "Contents Under Pressure" Hoods "The King Is Dead" Crowbar "Crowbar" Machine Head "Burn My Eyes" Six Feet Under "Maximum Violence" Agnostic Front "One Voice",what are some of yours? Yeah Hoods is great,they just put a new one out on Eulogy records,I never got into Comeback Kid really,Davidian good call on New American Gospel and Nile Remember I said I liked Hardcore,Hoods is real Hardcore,Terror,Shattered Realm,A Dying Dream,good stuff there


  20. Resolved Question: all who are searching the truth?
    21. 26 Nov 2007 at 2:19pm
    Brothers and Sisters if you are calling your self atheist, agnostic, nonbeliever, and similar names, I know you are suffering. But just try to listen one time to someone who wants goodness to you. Just forget all you know, all you ever read, heard, learned. Go and stand in front of the mirror (empty). Just look, it should be enough. But, however, if you want more go to www.harunyahya.com If you are sincere and devote some time to watch some movies and read some books you will feel and see what you will find. Good luck and e-mail me if you are on this path.


  21. Resolved Question: I am looking for a comprehensive list of hard core punk ba...
    22. 19 Nov 2007 at 9:11pm
    Okay hard core fans, here is your chance to show what you know. I am looking for a comprensive list of hard core punk bands for a Christmas present for my brother. Looking to put together a huge set of hard core into one collection. I have a lot of music already...Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, Bad Brains, Suicidal Tendencies(early years), DRI, Minor Threat, Cro Mags, Agnostic Front....I want more. I know there are a bunch I am missing, probably from my own collection. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would like to know group names and if they have any releases available. What I want to do is put together CDs based on area of the country...Bad Brains and Minor Threat for DC, Dead Kennedys for Bay Area, ect. I am more than willing to do the research, just need some help with where to start. Please do not suggest the lame groups of today like Green Day or Blink 182...they are pop rock at best. Thanks if advance for all of the help. Happy Thanksgiving and Cheers!!


  22. Resolved Question: For the CHRISTIANS here...?
    23. 19 Nov 2007 at 4:02am
    The Washington State Constitution, under the Declaration of Rights, Article 1, Section 7: "INVASION OF PRIVATE AFFAIRS OR HOME PROHIBITED. No person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law." It would be logical to assume that most (if not all) states have a similar (if not identical) right listed in their own Constitutions; in a nutshell, a legal "Right to Privacy". So, how do you justify coming onto a person's property every Sunday (and sometimes weekdays), pounding on their front doors (and generally disturbing their peace), and shoving your own personal religious beliefs down their throats??? As an agnostic, I do have beliefs and theories; but you will NEVER find me imposing them onto other people -- because I know that each and every person on this planet has every right to their own beliefs, FREE from the condemnation by others. I'm NOT looking for attacks here; I'm just curious... Peter - No, I didn't realize I was "handing them out"; I apologize. Vini - Personally, I don't care WHERE Christians pray -- just as long as you all afford people of all other faiths that same courtesy and freedom. And speaking of freedom, always remember that the "Freedom of Religion" door swings both ways. Lastly, as someone once said: "There can be no Freedom of Religion without freedom FROM religion." Child - Sorry, but I don't believe everything I read; especially not from a millennia-old book... Barry - I DID put up a sign on my door: it's the symbols for a man and a woman, the man is holding a Bible, and they're inside a red circle with a slash through it. The meaning should be crystal-clear; apparently, it's not, cuz they still come a-knockin'. Mim and Word - While some are JW's, not all are. Others are Christians: Fundamentalists, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, etc. Jabber - To me, personally, Heaven and Hell don't exist; they're fabrications. And I can't very well go to a place that doesn't exist, can I?? Child - Oh, and one more thing: I assure you, I did not "choose a path of unrighteous and agnostic" (by the way, the proper terms there would be "unrighteousness" and "agnosticism"). Unrighteousness is a judgment call; and you don't know me well enough to MAKE that call. And agnosticism chose ME - and very nearly went into atheism. See, I used to be a Christian. But almost 15 and a half years ago, in the space of about 2 hours, Christianity completely stopped making any sense to me. And it has never started back up again... *smiles*


  23. Resolved Question: You know what I don't know what to think anymore?
    24. 16 Nov 2007 at 8:22pm
    One of my favorite plays/movies is Inherit The Wind in which a man is put on trial for teaching evolution in an community that has found it unlawful to teach anything that goes against divine creation. Of course the prosecution has an absolute christian on their side and the defense has somewhat of an agnostic on their side. But anyway the prosecution's front man dies in the end and the agnostic at the very end takes the bible and Darwin's origin of species and puts them together and walks out of the court room. Of course symbolizing that both could possibly coexist. So what I wanna know is it could it actually happen where evolution and creationism could coexist in the real world. Please do not talk about the validity of the movie I do know the back story of it. I am asking about the philosophy of the matter.


  24. Resolved Question: You Know what I don't know what to think any more?
    25. 16 Nov 2007 at 7:45pm
    One of my favorite plays/movies is Inherit The Wind in which a man is put on trial for teaching evolution in an community that has found it unlawful to teach anything that goes against divine creation. Of course the prosecution has an absolute christian on their side and the defense has somewhat of an agnostic on their side. But anyway the prosecution's front man dies in the end and the agnostic at the very end takes the bible and Darwin's origin of species and puts them together and walks out of the court room. Of course symbolizing that both could possibly coexist. So what I wanna know is it could it actually happen where evolution and creationism could coexist in the real world. Ok I know the basis of inherit the wind i am a drama major but I think that the producers and director did what they did to make it artistic and make people think. And they never claimed that everything that happened in the movie happened in real life. They BASED it on some true events not the entire thing they were trying to stick with the art of it. Please do not talk about the validity of the movie I am trying to talk about a philosophical question here please stick to the question, can evolution and creation coinside?


  25. Resolved Question: A question about (Christian) questions?
    26. 11 Nov 2007 at 4:09am
    I've seen two questions tonight to the effect of, "If God (apparently the Christian God; both askers seemed disinclined to be specific about this) were PROVEN to exist, would you admit that he's real/worship him/whatever"? And I've seen plenty of questions like this in the past too. All right...if the existence of a god (whichever one you like) could be proven (inasmuch as anything can be proven in science)...say that he/she/it spelled out the phrase "Hey there earth!" in the sky with stars...why wouldn't we (atheists, agnostics) believe? It's the fact that he/she hasn't alread DONE so that makes us (or at least me) disinclined to believe. So I guess my question is: do some Christians just think that atheists and agnostics feel the way we do because we're stubborn jerks who won't believe what's in front of our eyes? Because, to me...the main problem is that it ISN'T right in front of our eyes. cadisney: Actually, I think that "anti-religious people" (and I do count myself as one of these) often have a bigger problem with religion than a chip on their shoulder. I don't know, personally, how many people in the history of humanity have died because of religion (religious wars, etc.), but I bet it's a lot, and I think it's horrendous. Thank you. I know MY answer to my question. I was curious about other people's answer to it as well. (The above comment was directed to Jesus M) Mr. Knowitall: Good point and well said. King James: Very true, but most Christians seem to see this sort of answer as a cop-out to their question. :) person-whose-name-is-in-Greek: Thanks you. I hope I did not generalize in my question; I am aware that by no means are all Christians silly name-callers. But not all of them are as polite as you.


  26. Resolved Question: Best oldschool Sunday Matinee: Agnostic Front or Warzone?
    27. 11 Nov 2007 at 2:39am

  27. Resolved Question: Where are you true Metal & Hardcore fans?
    28. 8 Nov 2007 at 4:17pm
    Arent you about sick of all these new bands coming out and faking it.What happened to the real true brutal,shredding stuff with heart,all the kids listen to is whiny garbage like MCR or these bands like Greeley Estates,Taking Back Sunday,Underoath.They dont appreciate the bands like Pantera,Sabbath,Hatebreed,Lamb Of God,Slayer,Agnostic Front,Machine Head,Unearth,Shadows Fall,Full Blown Chaos.All I know is we're loyal to our lifestyle becuase its more than music to us,break our necks and smile our bloody teeth grins with a middle finger in the air.And any new bands you'd like to share is cool too,here's a couple from me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7usTgw-7XfM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZSHpNHXgEo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqjEL1lh-FY I Love Megadethdude Rust In Peace is one of the best albums ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BALnKB-og6k cant forget them yeah Megan I see your point but they are'nt metal or hardcore,thats my point people try to put that label on them and it pisses me off


  28. Resolved Question: What is so great about intolerance?
    29. 3 Oct 2007 at 8:03pm
    What is so great about intolerance? Why do you hate other people? I?m not just talking about blacks, whites, Mexicans or Asians here. I?m also talking about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Democrats, Republicans, gays?everyone. Why does everyone hate everyone else? I just want to know why it is that people hate other people so much that they are willing to change public policy to be against these people. I?m not a fan of ignorant redneck hicks myself, but I?m not about to write my Senator to get public policy changed so they can?t do as they freely choose, or vote for someone based on how they feel about having cars in your front yard. And I just want to point out that while you're all hating each other, the politicians that you voted in based on your hatred are doing everything except what you want. (The last politician to do anything about abortion was Bill Clinton, just as an example.)


  29. Resolved Question: Are there no "mild" Christians here on R&S?
    30. 26 Sep 2007 at 7:28am
    I find it odd... Most of the christians I have known in person, with a few very noteworthy exceptions... aren't anything like as extreme as the population here. They do believe in God and that Jesus is the son of god and all that..... but they don't go in for all that hell stuff.... and they certainly do NOT take all that Revelations nonsense about the second coming of christ and the anti-christ etc as literal (most I've asked seem fairly agnostic to the matter of armageddon full stop). I'd even go so far as to say I find quite a number of them reasonable.... and didn't even know they were christians at all until they either told me or mentioned that they found my attacking christianity in front of them objectionable.... So do any such people even exist on R&S..... or is this board just full of extremists? Are the mild-mannered ones just going unseen because their voices aren't quite so loud? [ Admittedly... most of the "mild" Christians I've known have been fairly well-educated.... and the reluctance to take Revelations at face value might simply be a result of that education. I have reason to believe on the flip-side though that many of the christians here are american... thus not only more outspoken but more poorly educated as well. That might well account for it. ] Catholic Crusader :~ I'm talking about christians here. I never said I was personally mild. Nor have I accounted for the extremist Muslims I've put up with... nor a few lunatics among the atheists. Did I mention that I live in London, and have walked past the Scientology joint on Tottenham Court Road many times too? REALLY crazy stuff goes on there....


  30. Resolved Question: Favorite Punk cd?
    31. 11 Sep 2007 at 11:05pm
    Mine would have to be Agnostic Front-Dead Yuppies and Sick Of It All-Just Look Around


  31. Resolved Question: The Holy Bible: The King Agnostic Front Version 2.0 GTR V-...
    32. 2 Sep 2007 at 4:27pm
    Thou shalt think for yourself. Go outside. That's it, close the book. Go out, and enjoy nature and life. The End. ** BEHOLD ** The Holy Bible: The King Agnostic Front Version 2.0 GTR V-Spec Revised (the new jestament) >Thou shalt stay the hell inside if it's 104 degrees out! If thou hath no AC, thou must go unto thine neighbor and takeith their holy AC unit. Grabeth a beer while there as well... ith. Oh, and if thy neighbor's wife is hot... loveith thine neighbor......'s wife. But still go outside and all that junk.


  32. Resolved Question: Atheists. As you non-religious stace becomes more popular...?
    33. 13 Aug 2007 at 4:39pm
    Atheists and Agnostics of all flavors, in general your non-religious stance continues to become more popular (percentage wise the population does seem to be growing). If someone looks closer, the group is made up of a large group of individuals with often very different belief systems and philosophies. As this group becomes a larger and more accepted group (both politically and socially) do you expect to have more internal disagreements? Will differences in (non) denominations and/or philosophies start to make more of a difference? Will it be tougher to maintain a homogenous front? YOUR. Though I understand why it exists, I really dislike that you cannot edit questions. I agree a majority of Atheists are not in an homogenous front. When it comes to politics though, there is at least the illusion of one as the fight to keep religion out of politics continues. As the sheer number of Atheists increases, could that start to change? As one answerer already pointed out, there ARE organized Atheist groups even if the majority of Atheists do not belong to them (yet).


  33. Resolved Question: Creationists (and others): The FSM was put forth in order ...
    34. 10 Aug 2007 at 10:22am
    ... creationism alone should be taught in public schools as an alternative to evolution. A lot of people embrace the argument and understand the parody. These are overwhelmingly not creationists, though. Indeed, I've never heard a creationist's response. So... Creationists, IF I were to accept the notion that an alternative to evolution should be taught in schools, why should it be the Abrahamic/Christian tradition, in particular? Let me say up front that I'm an agnostic formerly trained in the sciences. For me, evolution has a sufficient amount of evidence to back it up. On the other hand, as a rationalist non-empiricist I also succumb to the notion that what I "know" is limited and therefore leave room for other possibilities. This is more of a social/cultural question than one about religious beliefs.


  34. Resolved Question: Why is it that Atheists and Agnostics always try to?
    35. 7 Aug 2007 at 11:13pm
    make Christians "Prove" the existence of God when they ask a question on here but they are always ready to say"I have a right to my opinion"....Belief in a Diety is faith,an intangiable and will never be able to be "proved"...so the belief is an opinion and therefore Christians have the right to the opinion of belief in God......this is known going into any debate so why do the Ath's and Agno's continue to try to make someone "prove" anything?...it doesnt make sense to ask someone to 'prove" something when it is known up front they cant?... why ask something you know cant be answered when you ask it.... wow...anger..nastiness....almost hate in these answers...still nothing to say why you should ask something if you know it cant be answered.....just attack attack attack the person asking the question....wow...hate is powerful isnt it? kdude...agree but they really continue to atatck and say"prove it"


  35. Resolved Question: I was baptized when I was about 11 years old and I was ask...
    36. 5 Aug 2007 at 7:55pm
    Do you believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as Lord ect. ect. Of course I said yes. I was 11, half naked in a white rob in front of an entire church. Now I'm older and no longer believe in Christianity; I'm agnostic. So I have 3 questions. 1. Do you think it's right to ask children such a serious question when they most likely don't know enough about how they feel about religion to give a truthful answer? 2. This is for Christian's. Do I still get into heaven because I've been babtized even though I no longer believe? 3. If you answered no to question 2, then why do some churches baptize babies?


  36. Resolved Question: What do you think this quote means by St. Paul everyone?
    37. 5 Aug 2007 at 6:39am
    "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" (Rom 1:18-20 NKJ). Take a stab at it truthfully Atheist, Agnostics, Christians, Mystics (Gnostics and others), and other. Be genuine and truly look it over in reason and use unbiased intelligence, which is asking a lot because everything is filtered through our beliefs. I'll add the below for reference. 5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed." Peace


  37. Resolved Question: I need help understanding thiss!!!!!!?
    38. 30 Jul 2007 at 6:23pm
    I used to be agnostic, but now I'm all devoted to god! he's everything to me! But I don't understand how people can be so two-faced in front of the lord! and people out there know what I mean! They will go to church and praise how much they "LOVE" the lord. Go home and do the total opposite it's sooo wrong! and it's ridiculous!


  38. Voting Question: plz give my babydogs a thought?
    39. 15 Jul 2007 at 8:16pm
    ive had my dog for almost 12 years she slid in the snow in january and hurt her front left leg. ever since then its gone downhill that leg and yesterday she was hospitalized she cant use it at all now. even being the agnostic i am im askin yall to pray for my best friend the vet said it might be cancer ty.


  39. Resolved Question: Anyone know any good Hardcore Punk bands for each letter o...
    40. 3 Jul 2007 at 8:20pm
    for etc, A could be Agnostic Front, B could be both Black Flag and Bad Brains, so... like that


  40. Resolved Question: Atheists and Agnostics believe they can do whatever they w...
    41. 28 Jun 2007 at 1:37am
    Do evil sinners like Atheists and Agnostics believe they can do whatever they want to do and believe whatever they want to believe? Do people have a right to murder or rape? Does the Atheists have a right be arrogant and mean spirited? Sure they do, that is their free will. Does the Atheists and Agnostics have a right to be a liar? Sure they do they are evil sinners. The fact is that Christians repent and believe and will go to heaven according to the smart Christian God. The Atheists and Agnostics who claim to be smarter then God do not believe they have to repent. They believe they can do whatever they want and they believe they can get away with it. Since Atheists/Agnostics believe they can disobey God: they can lust, cheat, steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, rape, hate and can get away with it. Right? The truth is that they can't get away with their sins in front of God who damns them if they try. In the Gospel of John 3:17 Atheists and Agnostics are damned already. Rev 21:8


  41. Resolved Question: Would you care if they put the 10 commandments in front of...
    42. 24 Jun 2007 at 12:42pm
    I'm agnostic, but I couldn't care less. It's another monument that most people won't look at anyway.


  42. Resolved Question: Why are Muslims so sensitive regarding criticism of the "p...
    43. 28 May 2007 at 7:14pm
    I am an agnostic, so I do not profess to any particular religion. But I do enjoy learning about all the beliefs of the major religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism). What I do not understand is why do Muslims react aggressively and violently to criticism of Mohammed? I can criticize the main aspects of Christianity and Jesus Christ in front of Christians, and although they may get upset, they will not kill me. If I were to go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, ect, and question the tenets of Islam and Mohammed I would surely be killed. How is this justified?


  43. Resolved Question: Why are you an atheist? Were you raised that way, or did y...
    44. 27 May 2007 at 1:48am
    My parents and grandparents tried taking me to church when I was young, and I always thought it was dumb. I did lots of eye rolling and thinking, "you can't be serious", even as an nine year old. I'm probably more of an agnostic than an atheist. I imagine there might be a bigger "something" out there, but the dogma is tough to swallow with a straight face. And the idea that the guy standing at the front wearing a robe knew any more than the next guy about what was going on in the universe did not compute. Brett A - I didn't say it was any particular "God" ... Just a "something". I guess, true atheists probably believe that when we die we are just worm food, but I'm not so sure we don't move on to something else. In other words, is there a spirit in addition to our bodies? If so, what happens to it when we die? Are we in an eternal dream state? Do we come back as some other life form? Or do the lights just go out and that's it?


  44. Resolved Question: how do you stop feeling bitter?
    45. 26 May 2007 at 12:08pm
    i found my ex is basically gay (though he keeps claiming he's bi) and i feel used. i'm a woman and i feel like he used me, at least in the last bit of time, as a cover up. i feel he should have been up front with me as soon as he knew. we were both young, but it can't take that long to know your own sexuality. i was basically over the break-up and moving on but now i just feel so ....i can't describe it. his sexuality doesn't offend me- only that i feel so used. does anybody have any tips for helping me "forgive and forget"(that don't involve praying. i'm agnostic). he was never all that passionate in bed. there are other signs. i'm not using his sexuality as a scapegoat. he claimed to be bi about a year and a half ago. i had no problem with this- i'm bi too. everybody makes mistakes in relationships...but if he's gay it was doomed to fail.


  45. Resolved Question: CALLING all the FAITHFUL ? If an archangel/ prophet appear...
    46. 11 Apr 2007 at 4:17pm
    And he did all those miracles etc. in front of you, and tried to convince you that you have been following a Satanic cult. Islam is the real GOD's religion while your Christian. OR VICE VERSA. Would you convert?? Or tell this angel that he's Satanic, and throw him out? Or turn Agnostic/Atheist? Like, this guy has evidence, right, So do you disregard it, or do the right thing? HECK Leave angels, If gOd appeared to you as a rainbow/ fire in bush /Bright light, whatever. Would you believe him? To me the question is academic, cos Im neither Christian Nor Moslem. gjmb, i have to write a report on Stranger in a strange land, by heinlein. I was just wondering. What an average guy would do . Anna, If the angel is saying Islam is true religion, then obviously bible is either lies or half truths. So boring or not, what do you do when faced with a real hard choice? THE OVERALL VERDICT TILL NOW IS THIS: EVEN if GOD appeared and talked to me, I WOULD NOT GIVE UP THE FAITH I PRESENTLY AM IN. So where does this leave God? He can't hope to show you the true way anyways.


  46. Resolved Question: what is the status of Christ in Islam ?
    47. 14 Mar 2007 at 1:03pm
    Christ in Islam by Ahmed Deedat In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter One : Christian Muslim Responses -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Debate on TV At the end of the debate - "Christianity and Islam" - which appeared on the SABC-TV program "Cross Questions" on Sunday 5th June 1983, the Chairman, Mr. Bill Chalmers commented: "I think it can be said from this discussion that there is, at present, somewhat more accommodation on the Islamic side for the founder of Christianity than there is on the Christian side for the founder of Islam. What the significance of that is, we leave it to you, the viewer, to determine, but I do think you will agree that it is a good thing that we are talking together." "Bill" as he is popularly addressed, without any formalities, on all his programs, by all his panelists, is extremely charming and stupendous in his humility. He is a picture of what the Holy Quran portrays of a good Christian: "...And nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say: 'We are Christians': because among these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world. And they are not arrogant." (The Holy Quran 5:82) Jesus - His Status Were the Muslims on the panel trying to placate the viewers out policy, deceit or diplomacy? Nothing of the kind! They were only articulating what God Almighty had commanded them to say in the Holy Quran. As Muslims, they had no choice. They had said in so many words: "We Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today), that he gave life to the dead by God's permission and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by god's permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he or she does not believe in Jesus!" Pleasant Surprise Over 90% of the people who witnessed this debate must have been pleasantly, but skeptically, surprised. They might have not believed their ears. They must have surmised that the Muslims were playing to the gallery - that they were trying to curry favor with their fellow Christian countrymen; that if the Muslims would say a few good words about Jesus, then in reciprocation the Christians might say a few good words about Muhammed (may the peace and the blessings of God be upon all His righteous servants, Moses, Jesus, Muhammed...etc.); that I scratch your back and you scratch my back - which would be a sham or hypocrisy. Hate Cultivated We cannot blame the Christians for their skepticism. They have been so learned for centuries. They were trained to think the worst of the man Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, and his religion. How aptly did Thomas Carlyle say about his Christian brethren over a hundred and fifty years ago: "The lies which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammed) are disgraceful to ourselves only." We Muslims are partly responsible for this. We have not done anything substantial to remove the cobwebs. Ocean of Christianity South Africa is an ocean of Christianity. If Libya boasts the highest percentage of Muslims on the continent of Africa, then the Republic of South Africa would also be entitled to boast the highest percentage of Christians. In this ocean of Christianity the R.S.A. - the Muslims are barely 2% of the total population. We are a voteless minority - numerically, we count for nothing; politically, we count for nothing; and economically, one white man, as Oppenheimer, could buy out the whole lot of us, lock, stock and barrel. So if we had feigned to appease, we might be excused. But no! We must proclaim our Master's Will; we must declare the Truth, whether we liked it or not. In the words of Jesus: "Seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free" (John 8:32). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter Two : Jesus in the Quran -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christians Unaware The Christian does not know that the true spirit of charity which the Muslim displays, always, towards Jesus and his mother Mary spring from the fountainhead of his faith - the Holy Quran. He does not know that the Muslim does not take the holy name of Jesus, in his own language, without saying Eesa, alaihi assalam ("Jesus, peace be upon him") The Christian does not know that in the Holy Quran Jesus is mentioned twenty five times. For example: "We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit" (The Holy Quran 2:87) "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary..." (3:45) "...Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of god..." (4:171) "...And in their foot steps we sent Jesus the son of Mary..." (5:46) "And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous." (6:85) Jesus - His Titles Though Jesus is mentioned by name in twenty-five places in the Holy Quran, he is also addressed with respect as: Ibn Maryam, meaning "The son of Mary"; and as the Maseeh (in Hebrew it is the Messiah), which is translated as "Christ". He is also known as Abdullah, "The servant of Allah"; and as Rasul u Allah, the messenger of Allah. He is spoken of as "The Word of God", as "The Spirit of God", as a "Sign of God", and numerous other epithets of honor spread over fifteen different chapters. The Holy Quran honors this mighty messenger of God, and the Muslims have not fallen short over the past fourteen hundred years in doing the same. There is not a single disparaging remark in the entire Quran to which even the most jaundiced among the Christians can take exception. Eesa Latinised to "Jesus" The Holy Quran refers to Jesus as Eesa, and this name is used more times than any other title, because this was his "Christian" name. Actually, his proper name was Eesa (Arabic), or Esau (Hebrew); classical Yeheshua, which the Christian nations of the West latinised as Jesus. Neither the "J" nor the second "s" in the name Jesus is to be found in the original tongue - they are not found in the Semitic languages. The word is very simply "E S A U" a very common Jewish name, used more than sixty times in the very first booklet alone of the Bible, in the part called "Genesis". There was at least one "Jesus" sitting on the "bench" at the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin. Josephus the Jewish historian mentions some twenty five Jesus' in his "Book of Antiquities". The New Testament speaks of "Bar-Jesus" a magician and a sorcerer, a false prophet (Acts 13:6); and also "Jesus-Justus" a Christian missionary, a contemporary of Paul (Colossians 4:11). These are distinct from Jesus the son of Mary. Transforming "Esau" to (J)esu(s) - Jesus - makes it unique. This unique (?) name has gone out of currency among the Jews and the Christians from the 2nd century after Christ. Among the Jews, because it came to be a name of ill - repute, the name of one who blasphemed in Jewry; and among the Christians because it came to be the proper name of their God. The Muslim will not hesitate to name his son Eesa because it is an honored name, the name of a righteous servant of the Lord. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter Three : Mother And Son -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mary Honored The birth of Jesus Christ is described in two places of the Quran - chapter 3 and chapter 19. Reading from the beginning of his birth, we come across the story of Mary, and the esteemed position which she occupies in the House of Islam, before the actual annunciation of the birth of Jesus is given: "'Behold'! the angels said: 'O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee, and chosen thee above the women of all nations" (3:42) "Chosen thee above the women of all nations." Such an honor is not to be found given to Mary even in the Christian Bible! The verse continues: "O Mary! Worship thy Lord devoutly: prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down." (3:43) Divine Revelation What is the source of this beautiful and sublime recitation which, in its original Arabic, moves men to ecstasy and tears? verse 44 below explains: "This is part of the tidings, of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Muhammad!) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point)." (3:44) Mary's Birth The story is that the maternal grandmother of Jesus, Hannah, had hitherto been barren. She poured out her heart to God: If only God will grant her a child, she would surely dedicate such a child for the service of God in the temple. God granted her prayer and Mary was born. Hannah was disappointed. She was yearning for a son, but instead she delivered a daughter; and in no way is the female like the male, for what she had in mind. What was she to do? She had made a vow to God. She waited for Mary to be big enough to fend for herself. When the time came, Hannah took her darling daughter to the temple, to hand over for temple services. Every priest wanted to be the god-father of this child. They cast lots with arrows for her - like the tossing of the coin - head or tail? eventually she fell to the lot of Zakariya, but not without a dispute. The Source of His Message This was the story. But where did Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, get this knowledge from? He was an Ummi, Arabic for "unlettered". He did not low how to read or write. He is made by God Almighty to answer this very question in the verse above, by saying that it was all by divine inspiration. "No!", says the controversialist. "This is Muhammed's own concoction. He copied his revelations from the Jews and Christians. He plagiarized it. He forged it." Knowing full-well, and believing as we do, that the whole Quran is the veritable Word of God, we will nevertheless agree, for the sake of argument, with the enemies of Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, for a moment, that he wrote it. We can now expect some cooperation from the unbelievers. Ask him: "Have you any qualms in agreeing that Muhammed was an Arab?" Only an ignorant will hesitate to agree. In that case there is no sense in pursuing any discussion. Cut short the talk. Close the book! With the man of reason, we proceed. "That this Arab, in the first instance, was addressing other Arabs. He was not talking to Indian Muslims, Chinese Muslims, or Nigerian Muslims. He was addressing his own people, the Arabs. Whether they agreed with him or not, he told them in the most sublime form, words that were seared into the hearts and minds of his listeners that Mary the mother of Jesus, a Jewess, was chosen above the women of all nations. Not his own mother, nor his wife nor his daughter, nor any other Arab woman, but a Jewess! Can one explain this? Because to everyone his own mother or wife, or daughters would come before other women. Why would the prophet of Islam honor a woman from his opposition! and a Jewess at that! belonging to a race which had been looking down upon his people for three thousand years? Just as they still look down upon their Arab brethren today." Sarah and Hagar The Jews learn, from the Bible, that their father, Abraham, had two wives Sarah and Hagar. They say that they are the children of Abraham through Sarah his legitimate wife; that their Arab brethren have descended through Hagar, a "bondwoman", and that as such, the Arabs are an inferior breed. Will anyone please explain the anomaly as to why Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, if he is the author, chose this Jewess for such high honor? The answer is simple, he had no choice he had no right to speak of his own desire. "It is no less than an inspiration sent down to him." (53:4) The Chapter of Maryam There is a Chapter in the Holy Quran, named Surat u Maryam "Chapter Mary", named in honor of Mary the mother of Jesus Christ, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him; again, such an honor is not to be found given to Mary in the Christian Bible. Out of the 66 books of the Protestants and 73 of the Roman Catholics, not one is named after Mary or her son. You will find books named after Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul and two score more obscure names, but not a single one is that of Mary! If Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, was the author of the Holy Quran, then he would not have failed to include in it with Mary, the mother of Jesus, his own mother Aamina, his dear wife Khadija, or his beloved daughter Fatima. But No! No! This can never be. The Quran is not his handiwork!. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter Four : The Good News -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- " 'Behold!' the angels said: 'O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him: his name will be Jesus, the son of Mary; held in honor in this world and the hereafter; and (of the company of) those nearest to Allah." (3:45) "Nearest to God," not physically nor geographically, but spiritually. Compare this with "And (Jesus) sat on the right hand of God." (Mark 16:19). The bulk of Christendom has misunderstood this verse as well as many others in the Bible. They imagine the Father (God) sitting on a throne, a glorified chair, and His Son, Jesus, sitting on His right hand side. Can you conjure up the picture? If you do, you have strayed from the true knowledge of God. He is no old Father Christmas. He is beyond the imagination of the mind of man. He exists. He is real, but He is not like anything we can think of, or imagine. In eastern languages "right hand" meant a place of honor, which the Holy Quran more fittingly describes as "In the company of those nearest to Allah." The above verse confirms that Jesus is the Christ. and that he is the Word which God bestowed upon Mary. Again, the Christian reads into these words, a meaning which they do not carry. They equate the word "Christ" with the idea of a god-incarnate; and the "Word" of God to be God. "Christ" Not a Name The word "Christ" is derived from the Hebrew word Messiah, Arabic Maseeh. Root word masaha, meaning "to rub", "to massage", "to anoint". Priests and kings were anointed when being consecrated to their offices. But in its translated Grecian form, "Christ" seems unique: befitting Jesus only. Christians like to translate names into their own language; like Cephas to "Peter" , Messiah to "Christ". How do they do that? Very easily. Messiah in Hebrew means "Anointed". The Greek word for anointed is Christos. Just lop off the 'os' from Christos, and you are left with "Christ"; a unique name! Christos means "Anointed", and anointed means appointed in its religious connotation. Jesus, peace and blessing be upon him, was appointed (anointed) at his baptism by John the Baptist, as God's Messenger. Every prophet of God is so anointed or appointed. The Holy Bible is replete with the "anointed" ones. In the original Hebrew, he was made a Messiah. Let us keep to the English translation "anointed." Not only were prophets and priests and kings anointed (Christos-ed), but horns, and cherubs and lamp-posts also. "I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar ..." (Genesis 31:13) "If the priest that is anointed do sin ..." (Leviticus 4:3) "And Moses... anointed the tabernacle and all things that was therein..." (Leviticus 8:100) "..the Lord shall...exalt the horn of his anointed" (I Samuel 2:10) "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed to Cyrus..." (Isaiah 45:1) "Thou art the anointed cherub..." (Ezekiel 28:14) There are an hundred more such references in the Holy Bible. Every time you come across the word "anointed" in your Bible, you can take it that that word would be christos in the Greek translations, and if you take the same liberty with the word that the Christians have done, you will have Christ Cherub, Christ Cyrus, Christ Priest and Christ Pillar, ...etc. Some Titles Exclusive Although, every prophet of God is an anointed one of God, a Messiah, the title Maseeh or Messiah, or its translation "Christ" is exclusively reserved for Jesus, the son of Mary, in both Islam and in Christianity. This is not unusual in religion. There are certain other honorific titles which may be applied to more than one prophet, yet being made exclusive to one by usage: like "Rasulullah", meaning "Messenger of God", which title is applied to both Moses (19:51) and Jesus (61:6) in the Holy Quran. Yet "Rasullullah" has become synonymous only with Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, among Muslims. Every prophet is indeed a "Friend of God", but its Arabic equivalent "Khalillullah" is exclusively associated with Father Abraham. This does not mean that the others are not God's friends. "Kaleemullah", meaning "One who spoke with Allah" is never used for anyone other than Moses, yet we believe that God spoke with many of His messengers, including Jesus and Muhammed, may the peace and blessings of God be upon all His servants. Associating certain titles with certain personages only, does not make them exclusive or unique in any way. We honor all in varying terms. Whilst the good news was being announced (verse 45 above) Mary was told that her unborn child will be called Jesus, that he would be the Christ, a "Word" from God, and that... "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (3:46) "At length she brought the (babe) to her people carrying him. They said: 'O Mary! truly a strange thing has thou brought!'. 'O sister of Aaron!, thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!' " (The Holy Quran 19:27-28) Jews Amazed There is no Joseph the carpenter here. The circumstances being peculiar, Mary the mother of Jesus had retired herself to some remote place in the East (19:16). After the birth of the child she returns. A. Yusuf Ali, comments in his popular English translation of the Quran: "The amazement of the people knew no bounds. In any case they were prepared to think the worst of her, as she had disappeared from her kin for some time. But now she comes, shamelessly parading a babe in her arms! How she had disgraced house of Aaron, the fountain of priesthood! "Sister of Aaron": Mary is reminded of her high lineage and the unexceptionable morals of her father and mother. How, they said, she had fallen, and disgraced the name of her progenitors! What could Mary do? How could she explain? Would they, in their censorious mood accept her explanation? All she could do was to point to the child, who, she knew, was no ordinary child. And the child came to her rescue. By a miracle he spoke, defended his mother, and preached to an unbelieving audience." Allah azza wa jall says in the Quran: "But she pointed to the babe. They said: 'How can we talk one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: 'I am indeed a servant of Allah (God) : He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet: 'and He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. '(He hath made me) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest; 'So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life again)'!" (19:29-33) His First Miracle(s) Thus Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, defended his mother from the grave calumny and innuendoes of her enemies. This is the very first miracle attributed to Jesus in the Holy Quran that, he spoke as an infant from his mother's arms. Contrast this with his first miracle in the Christian Bible which occurred when he was over thirty years of age: "And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, they have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, 'Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.' His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six water pots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the water pots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." (John 2:110) Since this miracle, wine has flowed like water in Christendom. Many reason that what was good for the Master is good enough for them. Jesus was no "kill-joy" they say. Didn't he make good potent wine, that even those "well drunk", those whose senses had been dulled could make out the difference ? "That the best was kept for the last.". This was no pure grape juice. It was the same wine that, according to the Christian Bible, enabled the daughters of Lot to seduce their father (Genesis 19:32-33).It was the same wine which the Christian is advised to eschew in Ephesians 5:18 - "And be not drunk with wine..." It is that innocent (?) 1% potency that eventually leads millions down into the gutter. America has 10 million drunkards in the midst of 70 million "born-again" Christians! The Americans call their drunkards "Problem Drinkers". In South Africa, they are called "Alcoholics"; drunkard is too strong a word for people to stomach. But the Prime Minister of Zambia, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, does not hesitate to call a spade a spade. He says, "I am not prepared to lead nation of drunkards", referring to his own people who drink intoxicants. Whether the water "blushed" or not "seeing" Jesus, we cannot blame him or his disciples for the drinking habits of his contemporaries. For he had truly opined, "have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now" (John 16:12). Mankind had not reached the stage of receiving the whole Truth of Islam. Did he not also say "You cannot put new wine into old bottles"? (Matthew 9:17). "Mother" or "Woman"? According to St. John, in the fourth verse above, describing the marriage feast at Cana, we are told that Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, behaved insolently towards his mother. He calls her "woman," and to rub more salt into the wound he is made to say "what have I to do with thee?" What connection is there between you and me, or what have I got to do with you? Could he have forgotten that this very "woman" had carried him for nine months, and perhaps suckled him for 2 years, and had borne endless insults and injuries on account of him? Is she not his mother? Is there no word in his language for "mother"? Strange as it may seem, that while the missionaries boast about their master's humility, meekness and long-suffering, they call him the "Prince of Peace" and they sing that "he was led to the slaughter like a lamb, and like a sheep who before his shearer is dumb, he opened not his mouth", yet they proudly record in the same breath, that he was ever ready with invectives for the elders of his race, and was always itching for a showdown i.e. if their records are true: "Ye hypocrites!" "Ye wicked and adulterous generation!" "Ye whited sephulcres!" "Ye generation of vipers!" and now to his mother: "Woman..." Jesus Defended Muhammed, salla Allah u alihi wa sallam, the Messenger of God, is made to absolve Jesus from the false charges and calumnies of his enemies. "And He (God Almighty) hath made me (Jesus) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest" (19:31). On receiving the good news of the birth of a righteous son Mary responds: "She said: 'O My Lord! how shall I have a son, when no man hath touched me?" The angel says in reply: "He said: 'Even so: Allah (God) createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a matter He but sayth o it 'Be,' and it is! And Allah (God) will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah (Law) and the Gospel," (3:47-48). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter Five : Quranic and Biblical Versions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Meeting the Reverend I was visiting the "Bible House" in Johannesburg. Whilst browsing through the stacks of Bibles and religious books, I picked up an Indonesian Bible and had just taken in hand a Greek - English New Testament, a large, expensive volume. I had not realized that I was being observed by the supervisor of the Bible House. Casually, he walked up to me. Perhaps my beard and my Muslim headgear were an attraction and a challenge? He inquired about my interest in that costly volume. I explained that as a student of comparative religion, I had need for such a book. He invited me to have tea with him in his office. It was very kind of him and I accepted. Over the cup of tea, I explained to him the Muslim belief in Jesus, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. I explained to him the high position that Jesus occupied in the House of Islam. He seemed skeptical about what I said. I was amazed at his seeming ignorance, because only retired Reverend gentlemen can become Supervisors of Bible Houses in South Africa. I began reciting from verse 42 of chapters 3 of the Holy Quran: "'Behold!' The angels said: 'O Mary, Allah hath chosen thee...'" I wanted the Reverend to listen, not only to the meaning of the Quran, but also to the music of its cadences when the original Arabic was recited. Rev. Dunkers (for that was his name) sat back and listened with rapt attention to "Allah's Words". When I reached the end of verse 49, the Reverend commented that the Quranic message was like that of his own Bible. He said, he saw no difference between what he behaved as a Christian, and what I had read to him. I said: "that was true". If he had come across these verses in the English language alone without their Arabic equivalent, side by side, he would not have been able to guess in a hundred years that he was reading the Holy Quran. If he were a Protestant, he would have thought that he was reading the Roman Catholic Version, if he had not seen one, or the Jehovah's Witness Version or the Greek Orthodox Version, or the hundred and one other versions that he might not have seen; but he would never have guessed that he was reading the Quranic version. The Christian would be reading here, in the Quran, everything he wanted to hear about Jesus, but in a most noble, elevated and sublime language. He could not help being moved by it. In these eight terse verses from 42 to 49 we are told: (a) That Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virtuous woman, and honored above the women of all nations. (b) That all that was being said was God's own Revelation to mankind. (c) That Jesus was the "Word" of God. (d) That he was the Christ that the Jews were waiting for. (e) That God will empower this Jesus to perform miracles even in infancy. (f) That Jesus was born miraculously, without any male intervention. (g) That God will vouchsafe him Revelation. (h) That he will give life to the dead by God's permission, and that he will heal those born blind and the lepers by God's permission, ... etc. "Chalk and Cheese" The most fervent Christian cannot take exception to a single statement or word here. But the difference between the Biblical and the Quranic narratives is that between "chalk and cheese". "To me they are identical, what is the difference?" the Reverend asked. I know that in their essentials both the stories agree in their details, but when we scrutinize them closely we will discover that the difference between them is staggering. Now compare the miraculous conception as announced in verse 47 of the Holy Quran with what the Holy Bible says: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was in this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, (as husband and wife) she was found with child of the holy ghost."(Matthew 1:18) Master Dramatizer The eminent Billy Graham from the United States of America dramatized this verse in front of 40,000 people in King Park, Durban, with his index finger sticking out and swinging his outstretched arm from right to left, he said: "And the Holy Ghost came and impregnated Mary!" On the other hand St. Luke tells us the very same thing but less crudely. He says, that when the annunciation was made, Mary was perturbed. Her natural reaction was : "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34) meaning sexually. The Quranic narrative is: "She said: O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" (3:47) meaning sexually. In essence there is no difference between these two statements "seeing I know not a man" and "when no man hath touched me". Both the quotations have an identical meaning. It is simply a choice of different words meaning the same thing. But the respective replies to Mary's plea in the two Books (the Quran and the Bible) are revealing. The Biblical Version Says the Bible: "And the angle answered and said into her : 'The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee" (Luke 1:35) Can't you see that you are giving the atheist, the skeptic, the agnostic a stick to beat you with? They may well ask "How did the Holy Ghost come upon Mary?" "How did the Highest overshadow her?" We know that literally it does not mean that: that it was an immaculate conception, but the language used here, is distasteful. Now contrast this with the language of the Quran: The Quranic Version "He said (the angel says in reply): 'Even so: Allah (God) createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!' " (3:47) This is the Muslim concept of the birth of Jesus. For God to create a Jesus, without a human father, He merely has to will it. If He wants to create a million Jesus' without fathers or mothers, He merely wills them into existence. He does not have to take seeds and transfer them, like men or animals by contact or artificial insemination . He wills everything into being by His word of command "Be" and "It is". There is nothing new in what I am telling you, I reminded the Reverend. It is in the very first Book of your Holy Bible, Genesis 1:3 "And God said..." What did He say? He said "Be" and "It was". He did not have to articulate the words. This is our way of understanding the word "Be", that He willed everything into being. Choice for His Daughter "Between these two versions of the birth of Jesus, the Quranic version and the Biblical version, which would you prefer to give your daughter ?" I asked the supervisor of the Bible House. He bowed his head down in humility and admitted "The Quranic Version." How can "a forgery" or "an imitation", as it is alleged of the Quran, be better than the genuine, the original, as it is claimed for the Bible? It can never be, unless this Revelation to Muhammed is what it, itself, claims to be viz. The pure and holy Word of God! There are a hundred different tests that the unprejudiced seeker after truth can apply to the Holy Quran and it will qualify with flying colors to being a Message from on High. Like Adam Does the miraculous birth of Jesus make him a God or a "begotten" son of God? No! says the Holy Quran: "The similitude of Jesus before Allah (God) is that of Adam; He created him from dust then said to him: 'Be', and he was." (3:59) Yusuf Ali, comments in his notes in the Quran translation: "After a description of the high position which Jesus occupies as a prophet in the preceding verses we have a repudiation of the dogma that he was God, or the son of God, or any thing more than man. If it is said that he was born without a human father, Adam was also so born. Indeed Adam was born without either a human father or mother. As far as our physical bodies are concerned they are mere dust. In God's sight Jesus was as dust just as Adam was or humanity is. The greatness of Jesus arose from the divine command 'Be': for after that he was more than dust a great spiritual leader and teacher" The logic of it is that, if being born without a male parent entitles Jesus to being equated with God, then, Adam would have a greater right to such honor, and this no Christian would readily concede. Thus, the Muslim is made to repudiate the Christian blasphemy. Further, if the Christian splits hairs by arguing that Adam was "created" from the dust of the ground, whereas Jesus was immaculately "begotten" in the womb of Mary, then let us remind him that, even according to his own false standards, there is yet another person greater than Jesus, in his own Bible . Who is this superman? Paul's Innovation "For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God... Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life..." (Hebrews 7:1,3) Here is a candidate for Divinity itself, for only God Almighty could possess these qualities. Adam had a beginning (in the garden), Jesus had a beginning (in the stable); Adam had an end and, claim the Christians, so had Jesus "and he gave up the ghost". But where is Melchisedec? Perhaps he is hibernating somewhere like Rip Van Winkel (a fairy tale character who slept for many ages.) And what is this "Hebrews"? It is the name of one of the Books of the Holy Bible, authored by the gallant St. Paul, the self appointed thirteenth apostle of Christ. Jesus had twelve apostles, but one of them (Judas) had the Devil in him. So the vacancy had to be filled, because of the "twelve" thrones in heaven which had to be occupied by his disciples to judge the children of Israel (Luke 22:30). Saul was a renegade Jew, and the Christians changed his name to "Paul", probably because "Saul" sounds Jewish. This St. Paul made such a fine mess of the teachings of Jesus, peace blessings be upon him, that he earned for himself the second most coveted position of "The Most Influential Men of History" in the monumental work of Michael H. Hart: The 100 or The Top Hundred or the Greatest Hundred in History. Paul outclasses even Jesus because, according to Michael Hart, Paul was the real founder of present day Christianity. The honor of creating Christianity had to be shared between Paul and Jesus, and Paul won because he wrote more Books of the Bible than any other single author, whereas Jesus did not write a single word. Paul needed no inspiration to write his hyperboles here and in the rest of his Epistles. Did not Hitler's Minister of Propaganda Goebbels say: "The bigger the lie the more likely it is to be believed'? But the amazing thing about this exaggeration is that no Christian seems to have read it. Every learned man to whom I have shown this verse to, seemed to be seeing it for the first time. They appear dumbfounded, as described by the fitting words of Jesus: "...seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." (Matthew 13:13) The Holy Quran also contains a verse which fittingly describes this well cultivated sickness: "Deaf, dumb and blind, will they not return (to the path)." (2:18) The Sons of God The Muslim takes strong exception to the Christian dogma that "Jesus is the only begotten son, begotten not made". This is what the Christian is made to repeat from childhood in his catechism. I have asked learned Christians, again and again as to what they are really trying to emphasize, when they say: "Begotten not made". They know that according to their own God given (?) records, God has sons by the tons: "...Adam, which was the son of God."(Luke 3:38) "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair... And when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them..." (Genesis 6: 2,4) "...Israel is My son, even My firstborn:" (Exodus 4:22) "...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9) "...the Lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art My son: this day have I begotten thee." (Psalms 2:7) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 18:14) Can't you see that in the language of the Jew, every righteous person, every Tom, Dick and Harry who followed the Will and Plan of God, was a "Son of God". It was a metaphorical descriptive term commonly used among the Jews. The Christian agrees with this reasoning, but goes on to say: "but Jesus was not like that". Adam was made by God. Every living thing was made by God, He is the Lord, Cherisher and Sustainer of all. Metaphorically speaking therefore God is the Father of all. But Jesus was the "begotten" son of God, not a created son of God ? Begotten Means "Sired"! In my forty years of practical experience in talking to learned Christians, not a single one has opened his mouth to hazard an explanation of the phrase "begotten not made". It had to be an American who dared to explain. He said : "It means, sired by God." "What!?" I exploded : "Sired by God?" "No, no!" he said, "I am only trying to explain the meaning, I do not believe that God really sired a son." The sensible Christian says that the words do not literally mean what they say. Then why do you say it? Why are you creating unnecessary conflict between the 1,200,000,000 Christians and a thousand million Muslims of the world in making senseless statements? Reason for Objection The Muslim takes exception to the word "begotten", because begetting is an animal act, belonging to the lower animal functions of sex. How can we attribute such a lowly capacity to God? Metaphorically we are all the children of God, the good and the bad, and Jesus would be closer to being the son of God than any one of us, because he would be more faithful to God then any one of us can ever be. From that point of view he is preeminently the son of God. Although this pernicious word "begotten" has now unceremoniously been thrown out of the "Most Accurate" version of the Bible, the Revised Standard Version (R.S.V.), its ghost still lingers on in the Christian mind, both black and white. Through its insidious brainwashing the white man is made to feel superior to his black Christian brother of the same Church and Denomination. And in turn, the black man is given a permanent inferiority complex through this dogma. Brain-washed Inferiority The human mind can't help reasoning that since the "begotten son" of an African will look like an African, and that of a Chinaman as a Chinese, and that of an Indian like an Indian: so the begotten son of God aught naturally to look like God. Billions of beautiful pictures and replicas of this "only begotten son of God" are put in peoples hands. He looks like a European with blonde hair, blue eyes and handsome features like e one I saw in the "King of Kings" or "The Day of Triumph" or "Jesus of Nazareth". Remember Jeffrey Hunter? The "Savior" of the Christian is more like a German than a Jew with his polly nose. So naturally, if the son is a white man, the father would also be a white man (God?). Hence the darker skinned races of the earth subconsciously have the feeling of inferiory ingrained in their souls as God's "step children". No amount of face creams, skin lighteners and hair straighteners will erase the inferiority. God is neither black nor white. He is beyond the imagination of the mind of man. Break the mental shackles of a Caucasian (white) man-god, and you have broken the shackles of a permanent inferiority. But intellectual bondages are harder to shatter: the slave himself fights to retain them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chapter Six : Answer to Christian Dilemmas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Christ in Islam" is really Christ in the Quran: and the Holy Quran has something definite to say about every aberration of Christianity. The Quran absolves Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, from all the false charges of his enemies as well as the misplaced infatuation of his followers. His enemies allege that he blasphemed against God by claiming Divinity. His misguided followers claim that he did avow Divinity, but that was not blasphemy because he was God. What does the Quran say ? Addressing both the Jews and the Christians, Allah says: "O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah (God) aught but the truth. Christ Jesus son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah (God), and His Word, which he bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah (God) and His messengers..." (4:171) Going to Extremes "O People of the Book" is a very respectful title with which the Jews and the Christians are addressed in the Holy Quran. In other words, Allah is saying "O Learned People!", "O People with a Scripture!" According to their own boast, the Jews and the Christians prided themselves over the Arabs, who had no Scripture before the Quran. As a learned people, Allah pulls up both the contending religionists for going to either extremes as regards the personality of Christ. The Jews made certain insinuations about the legitimacy of Jesus and charged him of blasphemy by twisting his words. The Christians read other meanings into his words; wrench words out of their context to make him God. The modern day Christian, the hot - gospeller, the Bible thumper, uses harsher words and cruder approaches to win over a convert to his blasphemies. He says: (a) "Either Jesus is God or a liar" (b) "Either Jesus is God or a lunatic" (c) "Either Jesus is God or an impostor" These are his words, words culled from Christian literature. Since no man of charity, Muslim or otherwise, can condemn Christ so harshly as the Christian challenges him to do, perforce he must keep non-committal. He thinks he must make a choice between one or the other of these silly extremes. It does not occur to him that there is an alternative to this Christian conundrum. Sensible Alternative Is it not possible that Jesus is simply what he claimed to be, a prophet, like so many other prophets that passed away before him? Even that he is one of the greatest of them, a mighty miracle worker, a great spiritual teacher and guide - the Messiah!. Why only God or Lunatic? Is "lunacy" the opposite of "Divinity" in Christianity? What is the antonym of God? Will some clever Christian answer? The Quran lays bare the true position of Christ in a single verse, followed by a note by Yusuf Ali's: "That he was the son of a woman, Mary, and therefore a man;" "But a messenger, a man with a mission from Allah (God), and therefore entitled to honor." "A Word bestowed on Mary, for he was created by Allah's word 'Be', and he was;"(3:59). A spirit proceeding from Allah (God), but not Allah: his life and mission were more limited than in the case of some other messengers, though we must pay equal honor to him as a prophet of Allah. The doctrines of Trinity, equality with God, and sons, are repudiated as blasphemies. Allah (God) is independent of all needs and has no need of a son to manage His affairs. The Gospel of John (whoever wrote it) has put a great deal of Alexandrian Gnostic mysticism round the doctrine of the Word (Greek, Logos), but it is simply explained here." Jesus Questioned Reproduced below are verses 119 to 121 from the Chapter of Maeda (chapter 5 of the Quran) depicting the scene of Judgment Day, when Allah will question Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, regarding the misdirected zeal of his supposed followers in worshipping him and his mother: and his response, "And behold! Allah will say: 'O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. 'Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. 'If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise.'" (5:116-118) Claimed No Divinity If this is the statement of truth from the All-Knowing, that "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'", then how do the Christians justify worshipping Jesus? There is not a single unequivocal statement throughout the Bible, in all its 66 volumes of the Protestant versions, or in the 73 volumes of the Roman Catholic versions, where Jesus claims to be God or where he says "worship me". Nowhere does he say that he and God Almighty "are one" and "the same person." The last phrase above "one and the same person" tickles many a "hot-gospeller" and "Bible-thumper," not excluding the Doctor of Divinity and the Professor of Theology. Even the new converts to Christianity have memorized these verses. They are programmed to rattle off verses out of context, upon which they can hang their faith. The words "are one" activates the mind by association of memories. "Yes", say the Trinitarians, the worshippers of three gods in one God, and one God in three gods, "Jesus did claim to be God!" Where? Reverend at the Table I had taken Rev. Morris D.D. and his wife, to lunch at the "Golden Peacock." While at the table, during the course of our mutual sharing of knowledge, the opportunity arose to ask, "Where?" And without a murmur he quoted, "I and my father are one" to imply that God and Jesus were one and the same person. That Jesus here claims to be God. The verse quoted was well known to me, but it was being quoted out of context. It did not carry the meaning that the Doctor was imagining, so I asked him, "What is the context?" Choked on "Context" The Reverend stopped eating and began staring at me. I said, "Why? Don't you know the context?", "You see, what you have quoted is the text, I want to know the context, the text that goes with it, before or after." Here was an Englishman (Canadian), a paid servant of the Presbyterian Church, a Doctor of Divinity, and it appeared that I was trying to teach him English. Of course he knew what "context" meant. But like the rest of his compatriots, he had not studied the sense in which Jesus had uttered the words. In my forty years of experience, this text had been thrown at me hundreds of times, but not a single learned Christian had ever attempted to hazard a guess as to its real meaning. They always start fumbling for their Bibles. The Doctor did not have one with him. When they do start going for their Bibles, I stop them in their stride: "Surely, you know what you are quoting?", "Surely, you know your Bible?" After reading this, I hope some "born-again" Christians will rectify this deficiency. But I doubt that my Muslim readers will ever come across one in their lifetime who could give them the context. What is the Context? It is unfair on the part of the Reverend, having failed to provide the context, then to ask me, "Do you know the context?" "Of course," I said. "Then, what is it?" asked my learned friend. I said, "That which you have quoted is the text of John chapter 10, verse 30. To get at the context, we have to begin from verse 23 which reads: 23. "and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade." (John 10:23). John, or whoever he was, who wrote this story, does not tell us the reason for Jesus tempting the Devil by walking alone in the lion's den. For we do not expect the Jews to miss a golden opportunity to get even with Jesus. Perhaps, he was emboldened by the manner in which he had literally whipped the Jews single-handed in the Temple, and upset the tables of the money changers at the beginning of his ministry (John 2:15). 24. "The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." (John 10:24). They surrounded him. Brandishing their fingers in his face, they began accusing him and provoking him; saying that he had not put forth his claim plainly enough, clearly enough. That he was talking ambiguously. They were trying to work themselves into a frenzy to assault him. In fact, their real complaint was that they did not like his method of preaching, his invectives, the manner in which he condemned them for their formalism, their ceremonialism, their going for the letter of the law and forgetting the spirit. But Jesus could not afford to provoke them any further there were too many and they were itching for a fight. Discretion is the better part of valor. In a conciliatory spirit, befitting the occasion: 25. "Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me," 26. "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep." (John 10:25-26). Jesus rebuts the false charge of his enemies that he was ambiguous in his claims to being the Messiah that they were waiting for. He says that he did tell them clearly enough, yet they would not listen to him, but: 27. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." 28. "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." 29. "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.." (John 10:29). How can anyone be so blind as not to see the exactness of the ending of the last two verses. But spiritual blinkers are more impervious than physical defects. He is telling the Jews and recording for posterity, the real unity or relationship between the Father and the son. The most crucial verse: 30. "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30). One in what? In their Omniscience? In their Nature? In their Omnipotence? No! One in purpose! That once a believer has accepted faith, the Messenger sees to it that he remains in faith, and God Almighty also sees to it that he remains in faith. This is the purpose of the "Father" and the "son" and the "Holy Ghost" and of every man and every woman of faith. Let the same John explain his Gnostic mystic verbiage. "That they all may be one as thou. Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us..." "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one..."(John 17:20-22) If Jesus is "one" with God, and if that "oneness" makes him God, then the traitor Judas, and the doubting Thomas, and the satanic Peter, plus the other nine who deserted him when he was most in need are God(s), because the same "oneness" which he claimed with God in John 10:30, now he claims for all "who forsook him and fled" (Mark 14:50). All "ye of little faith" (Matthew 8:26). All "O faithless and perverse generation" (Luke 9:41). Where and when will the Christian blasphemy end? The expression "I and my Father are one," was very innocent, meaning nothing more than a common purpose with God. But the Jews were looking for trouble and any excuse will not do, therefore, 31. "Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him," 32. "but Jesus said to them, I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33. "The Jews answered him, saying : 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God.'" (John 10:31-33). In verse 24 above the Jews falsely alleged that Jesus was talking ambiguously. When that charge was ably refuted, they then accused him of blasphemy which is like treason in the spiritual realm. So they say that Jesus is claiming to be God "I and the Father are one". The Christians agree with the Jews in this that Jesus did make such a claim; but differ in that it was not blasphemy because the Christians say that he was God and was entitled to own up to his Divinity. The Christians and the Jews are both agreed that the utterance is serious. To one as an excuse for good "redemption", and to the other as an excuse for good "riddance". Between the two, let the poor Jesus die. But Jesus refuses to co-operate in this game, so: 34. "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'?" 35. "If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came --and the Scripture cannot be broken--," 36. "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the worl